Unfiltered-ish

The One Where Ina Garten Makes Us Want to Start Over

• Carina Gardner, Nicki Krawczyk, and Natali Edmonds

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What if it’s not too late to start a completely different life?

In this episode of Unfiltered-ish, Natali, Carina, and Nicki talk about Ina Garten, Be Ready When the Luck Happens, marriage, ambition, divorce, reinvention, business, and the strange pressure to feel like you should be farther along by now. What starts as a conversation about Barefoot Contessa, Food Network nostalgia, Jeffrey, brownies, truffle butter, and Ina’s unlikely business story turns into a deeper conversation about what it takes to leave the safe path and build a life that actually feels like yours.

We talk about Ina buying a specialty food store with no real experience, the reality behind her success, the risk of starting over, the love story between Ina and Jeffrey, gray divorce, women choosing peace over appearances, and why so many people stay in lives that look good on the outside but don’t feel right on the inside.

Natali also shares the story of taking a solo trip to Seattle for the World Cup, reconnecting with her Bosnian identity, learning Bosnian with AI, and imagining a completely different version of her life. Carina reflects on feeling behind, building a university in her 40s, and realizing that some of the people we admire most didn’t start their next big chapter until much later.

If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re behind, whether you’re allowed to change your life, or whether the safe path is actually the right one, this episode is for you.

Unfiltered-ish is the midlife group chat for women talking honestly about friendship, ambition, marriage, dating, money, aging, reinvention, joy, and wanting more out of life.

SPEAKER_01

Hi, I'm Karina. And the first time I ever saw Aina Gardner on TV, I was 23, and it was her Barefoot Contessa Food Network show.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, I'm Natalie. And the first time I ever saw Ana Gardner was also on TV, Food Network. I have no idea how old I was. I would like to say maybe graduate school, so mid-20s probably.

SPEAKER_00

Hi, I'm Nikki. And you know, I've actually never seen an Ina Gardner show. I saw that she did one, she did one video during COVID where she makes this like giant martini, and it's very funny. But my introduction to her was reading, uh, was reading that book. And I immediately was like, I dig this lady. Um, but no, I've actually never seen any of her shows. Isn't that funny?

SPEAKER_02

Also, I feel like we should immediately apologize. And we are on a podcast with Karina Gardner, but her name is Ina Garden. Like Garten. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like I never say it right. Wait, did I say Ina Gardner? No. I said it too. Oh yeah, I said it wrong.

SPEAKER_01

And the hard part is her name is all like parts of my name because I'm Karina. So it's like Ina, I it's like the last three letters of my name, and then her Gardner, Garten, I don't know how to say it. G-A-R-T-N-E-R, right? Oh no, G-A-R-T-E-N.

SPEAKER_00

G-A-E Garten. Garten. Garten. Yeah. Ina Garten. Yeah, I guess I can. I think because I we're staring at Karina Garden. I'm getting confused by Karina Gardener. Karina, not Gardener.

SPEAKER_01

Apple, Apple. Anyway, I just I have liked her from the very beginning. And when Josh and I had our little apartment in Minnesota while we're going to grad school, I literally became obsessed with Food Network watching her. And I think it's because she was like everything I wanted to be. She was soft and kind. She cooked food. She made it feel easy. She didn't seem hard. You know, I'm a big fan of Martha Stewart, but like Aina like spoke to me. Cause she was like the auntie that you wanted to have, right? And then we all recently read her book. I mean, recently in the last couple of years, uh, Find the Is it Find the Luck? What is it? Be ready when the luck happens. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which I really like that sentiment a lot.

SPEAKER_02

It is a good sentiment. And I love it. And reading her story so much, but it makes me realize you don't really know somebody like just by watching them on TV. Like you get a sense you like them and you kind of know a little bit about their personality. But once you read their history, what they went through, their ideas, their thought process, like I'm a huge fan now. Like I was always a fan, but now I'm like a huge, huge fan. For me, I would consider her as like a North Star kind of mentor now in terms of how she handled things, how she handled the growth, her personality, how she could stay down to earth and friendly, but still run this massive company and grow. I loved her story. And it makes me also want to start watching Old Food Network again. Not new Food Network with these competitions and things, but like Old Food Network.

SPEAKER_01

I agree with you. That old food work, it feels like 90s country to me. It's like, oh, it's a little nostalgic and has a feel to it. And it's before social media. So we all gravitated to it because it was very lifestyle-based. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

See, I only ever started watching those food shows when when like watching the competition ones because the the old food shows, I was like, well, I'm just gonna get really hungry. I'm gonna watch it and then I'm just gonna get really hungry. But then I started watching Chopped when the ex and I would travel overseas, and then we would we made up this like very complicated point system and we would bet on who was winning, and you would have to do shots if you if they if your person was eliminated or it was it was very complicated, but very fun. Um, however, I am all of this said, I'm willing to watch uh Ina Garden to get the full experience. Cause yeah, I I know her really from the book, but digging into the book, I was like, oh, I would just like the just the way that she was like, I, you know what? I want to do this. Something's not right, so I'm gonna explore this. Hey, I want to give this a try. This is totally outside my realm of experience, so I want to give this a try. And wow, this is really hard. That that got messed up, but you know what? I'm gonna I'm she was just very um proactive isn't quite the right word, but just like willing to explore. And I really, really liked that. And clearly it's it's paid off for her.

SPEAKER_02

I also love the love story. Like, have a Jeffree. Oh, Jeffrey is like the man, the best freaking husband. Uh I mean, quite frankly, Aina had no business going and purchasing a store in the Hamptons. Like she had no idea what she was doing. And her husband's like, okay, if you're not happy at this really steady, secure W-2 working for the federal government, if you're not happy, sure, move to a different state, even though we are newlyweds, and I will support you. Like, what in the world? I do not think most men are like that. And they just like the the love story there is like, I'm just as much a fan of him. He's a great husband.

SPEAKER_01

Even though it was definitely not a perfect love story, though, that's the thing I think that's real about that, because like there comes a point where she feels like she's the child in the relationship and she's like, this is not working for me. And then also it's interesting because I do feel like as you're reading it, it feels like an ideal situation for a woman. I'm not 100% sure if it's an ideal situation for a man.

SPEAKER_00

They do spend a lot of time apart, which since I spend a lot of time apart from my husband, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But what I appreciate is how they work through their difficulty. So I just recently read the part where they are spending so much time apart. He's in Tokyo and working for the Lehman brothers or whatever. And she was like, Hey, I think you need to come home, not because this isn't working, but because this is like I'm fine. I'm totally fine here being alone and I'm afraid for what that means for our marriage. And I just thought that was so mature and insightful on her part. And he was like, Okay, I'm I'll leave this like super high lucrative job and I'm coming back. And I could see that, like being alone now in this house, like Nikki, you probably feel this way. I'm like, hmm, this is kind of nice. Like, I don't know if I want to introduce somebody into this peaceful space now. So I think the fact that she saw that, recognized it, and told her husband, I thought that was really beautiful. And he was like, on my way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they seem like they have their priorities in line, or at least they they have speaking of North Stars, they they have priorities that are their north stars and they're kind of heading in that direction or trying to head in that direction.

SPEAKER_01

But they're also super individual. That was the interesting thing to me. Like, he has his career and she has hers. So they they they do feel like they are living parallel lives a little bit and then they come together when it suits them. Which sounds fantastic to me. I know, I think great for a woman. Once again, like as someone who's married, I'm kind of like, I don't know that Josh would like this. Like, there have been a couple of times there have been like jobs and stuff coming. I'm like, well, you should go do that. He was like, uh, we're not moving there. And I'm like, Well, I'm not moving there, I'm staying here. You can go do it, and then you can just fly home. And he was just like, Yeah, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I don't think most men would like the situation that they built.

SPEAKER_00

I think this is such a vast generalization, but I think well, I just remember, I think back to what they say about like all girls and all boys' high schools. Women thrive in all girls' high schools. Boy girls thrive in all girls' high schools, boys thrive in mixed high schools. Boys don't do as well when they are in um boys only. Like boys do best when they're mixing with women, but women do best when they're on, or women, young women do best when they're on their own.

SPEAKER_01

And I think there is that kind of and I maybe would not a hundred percent believe that, except for I look at my own son who's 13, and he he actually has a buddy out there. They're like swimming and stuff, but his best friends are there's like three girls that four girls that he texts all the time, and they're all best, it's him and these girls. And I'm like, hey, dude, do you have any boy? Like, he's like got a couple of guy friends, but like it's him and these girls, and I I don't know if it's because he's raised with sisters or he has a primarily dominant mother. I don't I don't know what the thing is. Also, they're all ethnic. That's also interesting, every single one of them. And I'm just like, this is interesting. Why don't you have more like boys that are your friends?

SPEAKER_00

So what you're saying is you're very pro-white man. You're like, yes. Let's support the white men with more women, with more women, yeah, it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I just it's been surprising. Yeah. No, no, I love I love it, but I'm also kind of like this is conf like I wasn't expecting this. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

Well, one of them's his cousin, though, right?

SPEAKER_01

Like, so I feel like there's the natural Yeah, there's the Cuzzy, but like his main like uh friend group, like uh actually I think mostly Asian or Indian. And I'm not sad about this because I would like some grandchildren that actually look like me. Cause like that would be that would be kind of fun. But you know, it's just I I'm not I'm not saying it's not right because every time I look at the data and I see my own life, it mirrors it perfectly. You know, like you can be a wife who literally makes more money than your husband has ever made in his life, and you will still probably do a hundred percent more of the chores, the cleaning. Like it just like the data is right. Okay, not okay, but it just is what it is.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. I think it's I I my my suspicion too is that the the kids factor just if you guys had not had kids, which is obviously very unlikely, but like if you guys hadn't had kids, I wonder if it would have ended up being split more equitably. Obviously, totally impossible to even test out.

SPEAKER_01

But I will tell you that if we didn't have kids, I don't think we'd be together today. Sorry, Josh. Because there's a reason you stay like I think that it's really rough in the middle, like even watching like reading Aina and Jeffrey, and they're such like it is they made a choice. Like, we are going to stay together. This is the thing we are going to do. And I just think that I don't want to say most marriages, but like you, one of you outgrows the other. I think you change dramatically. And so there has to be things that keep you together. For us, it's religion, it's children, it's shared history. We are very, very good friends. Um, but there are, I think, a lot of things that halfway through the middle, I think there's a reason people break up at a certain like between what what 10 and 20 years.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's very typical. Although there's a big rise in uh silk gray divorce, silver divorce. Oh, yeah, like um the empty nesters divorce. Yes, people getting divorced in their 60s and 70s. That number has increased exponentially.

SPEAKER_01

I had a friend, she's in her 70s, and she had she told me that they had seven, well, there's seven couples in their group, and literally she and her husband were the only ones still together. Wow. 70s, you guys. Like divorcing your 70s, like that is crazy to me.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, on the one hand, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go for it, Nikki. Oh, I was just gonna say, like, on the one hand, it's like, all right, well, I guess there's the the there's the well, how much longer till you die? Although in 2026, it could be like a solid 20 years. And then the uh there's the other hand of like, why the hell not? You're only you've got one life to live. If not now, when? And if I'm and I'm not gonna start living my life now, like let's try to live my best life.

SPEAKER_01

Nat Natalie, what were you gonna say about that? I honestly forgot. I was I was just thinking about this whole like you've heard the series like or those movies, grumpier old men, grumpy old men, or whatever. I do think that happens. I have noticed that with all the men in my life. I think they get a little grumpier, and I think women are no longer willing to tolerate. And so I think that's why you're seeing all those silver divorces because at some point you're just like, I'm not gonna, I don't have to put up with this anymore. Why am I putting up with this?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I do think women initiate. Men don't, they'll stick around because they get what they get.

SPEAKER_00

But the women all the divorces, women, women initiate so much more than men. It's a huge degree.

SPEAKER_02

I've actually never heard of a man initiating a divorce. I'm sure it happens, but nobody of my people that I know have initiated.

SPEAKER_01

I have, but they're all like cheaters. Like I was gonna say they found someone else. They found someone else to drop to. Like it's not because they're just getting divorced, they're getting divorced because they found another person they want to marry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Women get divorced because they want a better life. Yes. Men get divorced because they want a different spouse.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I believe that. So um, I was I remember what I was gonna say. You were like, it's crazy, like 70s, they're getting divorced. I remember being with Eric, and we had were recently engaged or something, and I don't know what we heard, but we heard about somebody getting divorced after like 20 years together. And I remember me and him being like, that's insane. How can you even get divorced after 20 years together? And here we are, August will be 20 years. And I'm like, Oh, I guess I see it. Like, I I totally get it.

SPEAKER_01

That reminds me of the thing we were talking about in the past episode, which is like you have to experience it to understand. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's one thing to hear and it's easy to judge, but like when you're in it, it's like, hmm. Also, I just love like I really struggled in the beginning. Like, I really, really did. Like, this is failure. What does this mean about me? I'm gonna be a spinster. I'm an old lady, like all this stuff. And then I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so proud of myself. Like, I could have stuck it out and like lived a life that looks so good on the outside, only knowing that I am like dying on the inside. Not dying because it wasn't like he wasn't horrible, but just knowing it wasn't like my life to live. It wasn't like there was something more fulfilling out there. Um and I felt long and hard about it and all this kind of stuff. And now I'm like, oh my God, I'm so proud of myself. Like, who cares? Who cares that I'm not living your storybook? Okay, so you have your judgments and your assumptions. Good luck having your life. I hope you're having a wonderful marriage. Chances are probably not, but I hope you are. And I'm gonna live my life. So don't worry so much about me. Like, I'm feeling good. Like I'm I'm loving it. And so I think it's like there's like this roller coaster of judgment. What are people gonna think? What does this mean about me? To like you just own it and step in it. And I'm like, I am would so much rather be single and at peace and living a life that's true to myself than like living a false life. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Good for you. There's like people like, why is she single? Why is he single? Somebody something must be wrong. I'm like, or there's not like they're just waiting for really great quality or whatever. It's not always that somebody something's wrong with somebody.

SPEAKER_00

Unless it's me, in which case I have a list.

SPEAKER_02

Well, we all do, to be honest. We all have things wrong with us, but like to the fact that like somebody wouldn't want to be with us, like I find that really hard to believe. That's awesome. Go ahead. Yeah, thank you. When we are together, so I'm just gonna add to the list in the last podcast episode. We are going to make an app. I would like to add there's a recipe in the Aina Garden um book on like the ultimate brownie or like the best brownie. And what if we baked some brownies and we brought them to the mastermind?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's a great idea. I love that for fun. Uh, I have all the Aina Gartner books, garden books. So I think we should be good. Um, I'm really sad that we didn't make something last time we were in Phoenix because I brought a book, like being like, oh, we're gonna make something, and then we never really did. And most of her recipes I do think are pretty easy, but there are a few recipes that I do of hers that are they are a little complicated. In particular, her mushroom chicken I is my one of my most favorite things I make. It takes a hot second and it includes ingredients I do not have access to all the time. And so it's a little like I have to plan ahead. Like what? What kind of just like certain kinds of mushrooms, and it really makes the difference, and they're not always in the regular grocery store, you which makes sense. She uses specialty stuff because she owns a specialty grocery store, right? Right. So it's like, oh, now I have to go dig around to a specialty grocery store to go find this particular mushroom. So I'm not anti, I get it, but it's also like, oh, there's an amazing recipe she has that's like um uh a truffle butter pasta, and you have to have truffle butter. And so she does have a link on her website where you can go buy it. And it I remember doing it while I think in early 30s or into grad school, and it was not cheap. Like you get a small tub of it. Yeah, if it's real truffles, that's it was real truffles, real expensive, it was so expensive, but I I went on it like, and it was kind of before you really did a lot of online ordering, so it was still a little like nerve-wracking, but you couldn't buy it in the town you were in, you had to order it from this place. So I ordered it and it was delicious. It's incredible. Oh, that makes me want to order some for us so that we can.

SPEAKER_00

That little bread place near me around the corner. I used to have you you would have to get there like a certain day, like Wednesdays, and they would sell out of it. They used to have a truffle butter, and I don't even know if it was real truffles because it turns out that most of the stuff people label as truffles is not real stuff. I don't even know if it was, but it was so good, like truffle butter with like the little the flaky salt in the butt, like oh good.

SPEAKER_01

So this one had like little black specks where all the truffle was, and you could taste it, and it tasted like truffle, and you couldn't really have more than that because it would be way over truffled, but oh my gosh, incredible. It was so, so incredible. I also what I think I like about her book, I love that Natalie loves the love story. I thought it was an interesting thing, it's definitely not my life, so I thought it was very interesting. I really respect her as a businesswoman way more than watching her show. Her show, she looks like an at-home cook, but like she was a businesswoman running those grocery stores really hard. I'm sure the margins were terrible and tiny. And watching her pivot from this, pivot here, pivot there. Like I was very impressed. I also like she doesn't outright say like things were not a success, right? But you could if you were reading between the lines and you're a business owner, you got the sense that like this was not working, there was money being lost here. There was, and she it was just interesting the way that she navigated those things to make it all work.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I think it well, there was one no go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, Nikki, go Nikki.

SPEAKER_00

No, I cut you off last time.

SPEAKER_02

So there was one part in it where she couldn't make payroll. She says, like, I literally couldn't make payroll, and she was talking to Jeffrey about it. She's like, I cannot let my employees go without getting paid. And Jeffrey was going to take out part of his 401k or something to help pay the payroll. Like, again, a supportive husband for this like wild lady doing things that she's never been trained for. So yeah, like it's a beautiful uh um reminder to all of us. Like there are lows, like really low lows. But what also stood out to me about her is she worked incredibly hard. If the baker didn't come in at 2 a.m. or whatever, she got out of bed and she was baking a thousand, you know, French loaves, or um, somebody, you know, got the batch of carrot cake wrong. She was in there, like she worked hard. And if I'm honest with myself, like I don't work that hard. Like, I'm glad she has all the success that she has because she earned it. And I'm not sure very many people would get so down and dirty. Like, I'm sometimes like, oh, another live event or another. And I'm like, this lady sacrificed so much to make what what looks to us like a super lavish lifestyle now. But it was hard grinding.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree. I feel like you you read these stories in, you know, I couldn't make payroll, and and you read it, you're like, Oh, that's you know, so interesting. And then that um that Jamie Kern Lima book, the Believe It, did you read that? Um, who she talks about before her QVC stuff hit, and she's like, we almost went bankrupt. It's like you you read these, you read these and you kind of you go, oh wow, that must have been tough. But but as I think as business owners especially, you can you imagine the sheer panic, like the true, and I think you know, I'm sure Gene McCurn Lima said something like I wasn't sleeping through the nights, and but like like I think being a business owner, the actual panic of like I can't make payroll next week, which means I have to dip into what I if you have you can't make you got nothing, right? And you and you own a food shop, you have vendors to pay, not just the people you have to pay. And if you don't pay those vendors, then you don't have food, which means that you can't sell the food, which means then you can't continue to pay vendors and pay your employees and like and the the you know, the like I said, the Jamie, like like being this close to actual bankruptcy, it's like the the it's you respect it, and then when you actually take a moment to be like, oh, you experienced like not just low, but uh the the lowest, the actual uh this could blow. my life up. I I may have made such I thought, oh I'll start a or I'll I'll buy this grocery store. And I may have made such a such a big mistake that this could blow my life up. Like I I think that that is I I really appreciate whenever anybody shares like what what their their bottoms were. But uh but I think it's hard to say absolutely um but uh I think it's hard to I think you really have to like take a moment and be like oh what would that actually be like to to be at the end of the week and not be able to and when you think like oh you probably pay your people once once every other meek maybe once a week but let's say it's once every other week to be looking at have not enough money because as as soon as you hit that you can't hit payroll then you've got the then it all compound I mean that that is a moment that puts a lot of people out of business because then it really starts to compound and well and I was just gonna say these are the stories we're hearing because they were successful at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01

How many stories do we not hear? And I think it's most people they hit it the bankruptcy happens and their business falls through we never hear from them because they're just trying to you know they end up in corporate or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's the majority people isn't that called like survivalist it's it's confirmation bias for for survival yeah you're right there is a term for it but you're right we only hear the success stories from the people who were successful. We don't hear the stories of all the people who couldn't pull it back from the and I think that's the majority of people.

SPEAKER_01

So I do think people especially entrepreneurs like get so excited because I was also thinking about it's like they're always on the verge of bankruptcy. Like I feel like these people I've never been there. I'm gonna say that like I've never been there and I try I plan on never being there because I plan on being steady. And I think these people are tend to be big risk takers. And so that's why they end up in these situations. I'm not anti it I'm just saying I'm I don't have a personality that you know can I was telling you guys before this episode even began like we're working on our audit numbers and we have to do certain things and I'm just trying to like figure out like oh how do we make sure the money comes through the audit correctly to the right entities and I'm like staying up at night for this and it's for a very small amount of money to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00

But I I yeah I just are in a brick and mortar whether it's a restaurant or whether it's a shop or whether it's an agency where like where you actually have a a physical location it's it's it's really easy to burn through cash and then you have these expenses that have to get paid no matter what. Whereas a digital business we can be more flexible and more agile. It's it's a a huge benefit to being in digital business I think I agree. I really agree okay what else about Ina Gardner okay my favorite thing was that um so I like I said I didn't really have much knowledge of her I had heard the barefoot contessa and quite frankly I was like oh it must be some like Italian I truly I was like oh she's she's from Italian like lineage. She's landed gentry of uh Italian and uh reading the book like she's the barefoot contessa because that's the business she bought you know what I mean like she was like I'm going to buy that company and now effectively I am the barefoot contessa. I mean that was the name of her TV show wasn't it the barefoot contessa like like she she just she just made it happen. You know she didn't have to go I have to build well I'm gonna change this from the barefoot contessa to to this she's like I'm buying the business this is who I am this is what I'm moving forward with sure I'm the barefoot contessa like she's not a an Italian woman with with you know royalty in her veins she's a Jewish girl from I can't even remember where she grew up but like New York that I could be wrong. Yeah it was New York or New Jersey or something like that's more in the Northeast I think but like good for her she bought it took it on and was like and now this is who I am yes I love that I love that and no at least from from what I I we what she put in the book no qualms about that no like oh I don't know she is this gonna be can this be my brand or can this be she just she was like no this is I bought this and I'm moving forward with it.

SPEAKER_02

I love not a lot of wasted energy and but what's it gonna be in my ego or my name or any it's just like this is business let's go but it was so fascinating because at that moment she had never been in business she never she was just like okay I'll take it here we go can you teach me how to run can you stay on for two weeks and just show me how to run a bakery crazy she felt called to do it and so she did it like oh I love that. But talk about divine intervention too like there has to be a higher power because the ad that she answered in the paper literally gave no information it was like five lines basically in like code with no vowels included for sale bakery call this number she's like at her work desk I think I'll call this number I love that like the room for serendipity wonderful but think about this like this is actually very interesting. I was thinking about it this morning she just totally changed her entire life her entire life timeline changed based on answering an ad on a whim that had no details no clever copy nothing like that how many people would still say well I've got a stable W too working in DC working on contract like she just was like this is not my life I don't want it it was like she dropped it and was like I'm starting a new life and like I'm very fascinated about that because I'm feeling this call to like start a new life right like I kind of already am but like drastic. And I'm just like what would my new life look like like what am I still well I know how to do this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this but she you can literally just do anything. And she proved it like you know sometimes we have conversations well who am I to make this offer like I don't know anything about who is she to have a bakery a cooking show a cooking book open stores have employee nobody nothing and she just decided and did it and I think it goes And it's not even like she had a background in cooking or anything right before she bought the business.

SPEAKER_00

I know I love that absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_02

So it's like why are we the only things stopping us are our beliefs our beliefs that we should stay married if we've been married for 20 years or we should only do the things that and work that we have a degree in or we should kind of live the life that other people find safe and acceptable it's like wait a minute why like just do something just change it.

SPEAKER_01

Ooh speaking of that I think Natalie you should talk about your crazy decision on a whim to go to the World Cup.

SPEAKER_02

Yes yes okay and I love it because I had this list of like things I wanted to do in my 44th year and I will be 45 next week. And so one of the things on my list that I didn't have was to take a solo trip on my own. And I'm just like oh I just don't think it's gonna count. I mean I went to San Diego with Nico but I'm visiting my brother it just wasn't like a solo trip. So the World Cup's here and Bosnia made it and they were playing in Seattle and it was like maybe four days before the game or something I just it's been on my mind like why not go? It's amazing Bosnia's in it you know I'm half Bosnian it's in Seattle what are the chances and it's just been on my mind on my mind on my mind I'm like why am I so why not like why not? So I went and found a World Cup ticket. I purchased one World Cup ticket I bought and the thing that was tripping me up was well I have Nico and I don't want to you know leave him for any more days than I have to and also I've been gone so much I don't want to stay in another hotel and do a I was like well why don't I just leave that morning and then watch the game and go right back to the airport and come back home that night like that's not a big deal at all. And that's exactly what I did. And it was so amazing and it felt like it put the spark back in me of wanting to connect more to my Bosnian side and that culture that I feel like has just kind of definitely been um less present since my mom died. And so I was like oh my God it's just been so fascinating. And so since then I've invited my cousins for Thanksgiving to come here. Don't know if it'll happen or not. I've really been thinking about moving to Croatia. That's where my family lives there now. So like why am I you know when Nico goes like what am I doing here? You know so it'd be fun like I've been this is what I was fantasizing about today. So uh there's a tradition on Sundays where you go have coffee and going to have coffee is not like American you go have coffee. You go have coffee for literal three hours. It's a people watching event and you get dressed up you do not wear workout clothes or casual clothes to have coffee. And it's you do it on Sunday starting around like 11 o'clock you go sit on the plaza you find a coffee shop you sit for three hours it's outside you just watch people walk back and forth you get dressed up and I was picturing myself like oh I'm gonna know the shop dog there's gonna be a shop dog it's just gonna be there. I'm gonna like know the regulars and talk to them and have my coffee. I'm gonna have a little apartment it's gonna be above a store and it's gonna be windows that open to like a central area hub where there's lots going on. There'll be like a little farmer's market on the weekends every now and then if I want to trip I'll go to the countryside or something. But I'm just like this is like I can make that happen right yeah you absolutely can yeah on my walks with Nico now I've been listening to my Bosnian oh you want to hear a cool way I'm using AI? Yes please. Okay so what I have done is I just started tracking common sentences that sentences that I use and say in like everyday life uh hey what are you doing or I'm sleeping or I'm going to bed or I'm working today or just start tracking like for a day track everything you are saying. Then I loaded all of those sentences into Claude and then I said I want a very female Bosnian accent person to be saying all these sentences. I want you to create an audio file. Well they have like Claude can do it but it sounds very AI but there's something through Microsoft called I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right Azuri A Z U R E. And for free I have a true Bosnian sounding person saying all of my sentences. So it'll say like it'll have the sentence I love my dog and it says it in English and then there's a little bit of pause for me to practice it and then the Bosnian person comes in and says I love my dog or whatever. And then there's another pause and then they say it again. So now on my walks and then I just like so then I have a notes app and as I think of more sentences I don't quite know how to say I will add it to my notes app and then like once a week I'll go hey update my Bosnian immersion to include the sentence and so now I'm like okay so now I'm calling my brother and I'm like he's like oh look at you Miss Bosnia I'm like oh shitary shai mash you know let's talk and he's like oh my gosh I'm like I know like it just like sparked this huge thing that I feel like is a little has been a little empty.

SPEAKER_00

I love that that's so wonderful.

SPEAKER_02

Okay also teach us something in Bosnian mmm what do you want to say okay you do you teach us something in Bosnian first and then I will teach our listeners something in in sign language sign language that that will go across really well on the podcast which by the way like how amazing we should talk about that a hundred day streak streak for both sign language and meditation that's something I want to start doing um maybe with my language but I mean you could just say um yasu kakosi yeah stravo hello kaku how are you um yeah uh kakusyzovish what is your name um anyway kakusi yeah how are you or you want to be like hey what's up like or Yatevoli my love you um I've been talking to Nico more in Bosnium I've been telling him T Simoya lubab TC moya dou show t si moya swiets like you're my love you're my world you're so I've just been talking to him as much as possible in Bosnian he's like I don't know whatever I got nothing yeah yeah um so this is really really cool and the cool part was like I thought I was a crazy person doing what I was doing and there was a Bosnian crew Friday morning um what morning I went whatever Monday morning at the airport all in their Bosnian stuff boarding the plane to go watch this game and boarding the plane back so fun did you speak to them in Bosnian uh kind of like a little bit I'm a little bit shy and not so confident.

SPEAKER_01

Did your mom but your mom spoke Bosnian to you girl yeah my mom spoke very bad English very like very bad English probably similar to your mom I'm guessing Karina I don't know her English is okay I clearly didn't think uh it was bad until my husband started telling me what the accent sounded like but you know I think her English is okay I I don't know like once in a while I don't understand her anymore but like she never spoke Cantonese to us which did your mom actually speak Bosnian to you?

SPEAKER_02

Well my so here's the thing I've been reflecting a lot like my mom and I weren't super close and I think it's because we didn't have like a shared language really. So like Bosnian was spoken a lot in my house her and my brother anybody who came over all the phone all the TV all the music but like we just didn't really have a lot of great conversations. So yeah like every now and then she might say something and it might be like a sentence in Bosnian or a sentence in English but like there's no conversation like to sit down and have a conversation with my mom it wasn't something that happened.

SPEAKER_01

Got it. It was very sharp. Yeah. So I'm just wondering because like if I sat down and tried to learn Cantonese, it would be literally like starting from scratch. Like I know my numbers I know to say Happy New Year like you know like the the basic things but like I don't even know what it sounds like.

SPEAKER_02

And I took a Mandarin class in college and I got a C minus granted it wasn't Cantonese but I just like I have trouble hearing the tonals you know my mind Yeah no I definitely have a foundation because like even listening to some of the words I'm like oh yeah like you know I remember these words or I remember in you know visiting my cousins in the summers and they only spoke Bosnian or so uh yeah I have a foundation I would say so it's like not so foreign to my ear I just love that you went and did something before your 45th birthday like that you accomplished no actually I'm curious on your list have you accomplished everything most of it I have not looked at my list I really should I I know I have not um accomplished some things one of the things I'm afraid to admit out loud here five days get to it like I think uh one of the things was to like learn how to twerk I don't I didn't learn how to do that let's I feel like the internet can help you with that definitely let's see oh it says recreate this is interesting so I need to go like update it this one says recreate a childhood activity like coloring just for fun right look what I was doing on our last podcast so I can check that one off boom um I know you said learn to quirk but twerk quirk twerk but one of the things you did do is learn a Michael Jackson dance I feel like you could switch it out yeah we showed that to Riley and Ella because Riley was learning um the moonwalk and I was like you need to see my friend Natalie and Riley was very impressed with you by the way I would love to learn how to do the moonwalk before Halloween so I can do it dressed as Michael Jackson because I'm Michael Jackson for Halloween.

SPEAKER_00

It's super easy I will show I mean I'm not a master but I know it's it's it it's most people try to do it the wrong way because you have one foot up on the toe it's the foot that's flat that moves and then you switch and it's the foot that so you put all your weight on the one with the toe so that the flat one can move very oh interesting.

SPEAKER_02

I will practice it maybe we can do that.

SPEAKER_01

People try to move the toe foot but it's the flat foot that moves okay okay another another very helpful uh instruction on a podcast here's how to do the moonwalk here everybody watch what you don't realize is Nikki this whole time has been signing this entire podcast episode.

SPEAKER_00

I'm fluent oh I had a sign language question the other day I forgot to hop on polo is the sign language for goodbye and hello the same no uh this is goodbye again very helpful it's the handshaking like goodbye right to then um hello is like a salute oh interesting hello is a salute that's interesting I would have thought it was the opposite I would have thought like hello bye or something you know like right but yeah no hello is a as a salute and then there's welcome these are like the first ones I learned way back a hundred days ago. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01

I can't wait until people can watch podcasts.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wait that's called YouTube okay we could and actually even today I was like do I have to do my hair are we gonna start recording these as videos we probably should at some point because they keep getting highlighted on um the ones with videos that get highlighted on on Apple podcasts and we could increase our listenership from 11 to 12 seconds.

SPEAKER_01

I mean we keep saying 11. I think when we have a million subscribers we should keep saying 11 because 11 isn't actually the number but we're gonna go with it because I like it. Okay back to Aina. The one last thing I want to say and I do think it's interesting when you are similar to your students and I think I am similar to my own students in that I always feel a tiny bit behind in life. Like I see these 20 year olds who've made millions and have built businesses and I'm like Karina get it together get it together but something about her story when she said that she started her next chapter when she was 50 and she didn't even start building her barn granted it was in the Hamptons until she was like 60ish. I I didn't really get the age but it was like and you know here I am we own a uh you know a secondary house we have uh essentially a casita and I was like Karina secondary house and you have a vacation house and a casita yeah and a regular house and I just it was like a moment as I was reading it and I was just like Karina you started a university when you're 44 you've got like you've done all of these things and she hasn't done like she's like your model you love her and she didn't get to do these things until 20 years almost after you get like be a little grateful you know like you are just fine and on track.

SPEAKER_00

I would challenge that maybe the word is not grateful, but like be proud of yourself girl look at everything you've done like on top of that on top of the that you have had multiple successful businesses you have you own yes you own all these but you also have three really fantastic kids like all of your kids are really great people yeah do you guys ever do you guys ever feel this way though like you kind of like even those like that uh first million podcast or diary of a CEO sometimes I'm kind of like Karina like or we look at you know the Alex Hermoses of the world and you're kind of like it it is interesting because those are the highlights but I don't think that they're the actual you know like the majority do do you you either of you feel that way her story made me just feel like you're fine Karina yeah I think it's the curse of the high achiever right is we always we we hold ourselves to high standards which means that we always no matter how good we're doing we think we should be doing better. I mean my life has has effectively have blown it up in a lot of ways over the past nine months and you guys know off the podcast that that has been there have been plenty of times I've hopped on Marco Polo and been like what am I doing? What a doofus I am that's like not the words that I'm generally using. And no I completely get that but I think that's also part of part of having high standards for ourselves. And I think it's also an opportunity to at least for me I lesson my lesson I I'm sure I've said this before and apologies to our 11 listeners but is to like okay just why don't you just see where this goes why don't you just trust the process why don't you just see see if there's an ad in a newspaper that makes you open a a bakery or see that you know you feel interested interested in this okay great like I'm I'm fortunate and that I don't have I don't have kids I don't have so I can be a little bit freer but I'm sorry I didn't mean to go down my road but what I'm saying to you is that totally absolutely but also damn girl you should be so proud of yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Yes certainly you know we all have high standards but be grateful certainly but be proud yeah I think I am proud but I also kind of always keep thinking like you should you should do more.

SPEAKER_02

Oh I mean yes we're definitely thinking that about you too that's the first thing we think so I think I feel like to what you said Karina I feel a lot like oh my gosh Natalie just get your crap together. These 15 year olds are making you know a million dollars a month because they made a food calorie tracking app or they found a way to make it look like with a click of a button on your laptop that you're on the page the teacher wants you to be on instead of playing the video game or like it's just so simple and easy to make money these days. Why does it feel sometimes so hard? Like why did I choose something that feels so hard? Like why don't I just go do something you know so I think that's the kind of thing that like I I can beat myself up over um but I also at the same token can acknowledge I've done some really great things. I've built some things like I was thinking today you know like as you know sales are coming in and stuff I'm like it's just so amazing that I just created something on from my brain that people Pay me from from all around the world. Like it's that's just crazy to me. I don't have to go to a hospital and have somebody feed me a client and get under the name of that. It's like, no, they want this. And it's like, it's just amazing. You know, like that to me, like, so sometimes I try to um tell balance it out with those kinds of thoughts. And I heard this thing about, like, you know, affirmations. We all talk about affirmations, like, I'm great, I'm successful, I'm a millionaire. Well, I heard this thing from Hermosy, which was really cool. He's like, stop doing affirmations and start doing arguments. Like, argue with yourself about why you are successful. Instead of like, I am successful, it's like, I'm successful, I've built a business, I am in the, you know, I'm profitable. People, I have a great reputation. People want to buy from me. I am, you know, all the people are wanting to partner with me. I have more collab requests than I can ever handle. Like, so you it's not just an affirmation, it's like the argument to support the affirmation, and I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I like that too. I think we lost Nikki. Oh. Nikki, come back. She's frozen. She is frozen. I think she's gonna have to hop out and come back in. But that's well, we can we can make this the pod. Yeah. Oh, she she left. That was really good though. Natalie, I feel like that is exactly I like the argument idea. I think that's interesting because sometimes we say things and we don't believe it. It's easier to believe if you make the argument, right? You have substantial data to tell you why the identity is true.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So I do an exercise with my care blazers and I'm like, oh, it's kind of similar, where they have a belief about themselves that's not so great about caregiving, like, I'm not patient, or I'm not loving enough, or I don't, I'm not caring enough, or whatever it is. They have this negative belief and they want to believe. I'm like, well, what do you want to believe about yourself? They're like, oh, I want to believe that I'm loving, or I want to be patient. I want to be caring. And I'm like, okay, like what evidence do you have that you already are? And they have like a crap load of evidence that they already are loving, caring, patient, whatever. But they're just giving so much magnitude to the human events that happen when we snap after the hundredth question or whatever it is. And so it's kind of like I use it as like evidence building, but it's kind of the same thing as this like argument creation. Like we're just going to make an argument for this belief that we're trying to build. And there's always evidence behind it. Like if you look, that's the confirmation bias, that's a reticular activating system. If you look for something specific, you will find it. And so we just have to train our brain to look for that something specific.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's the whole idea that you make your own reality, right? Yes. Like because it's it's choosing the pieces of your life that you are paying attention to. Right. That is so good. Yeah. Um, anything else about Aina that we should talk about?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I just love her. She's so unassuming to look at and so like regular to look at that she has this most fabulous life. And I just love that she seems so secure. She's not trying to be anybody else. She's not trying to impress anybody. She's literally somebody who wants to have a really great time with friends and family and has built her life around that and has become so successful. But she seemed, I mean, of course, who knows? I don't know her. But it just seems like she's not all about look at me, the flair, look at what I've created. It's really like I oh it feels like she's just opened the door into her world and is allowing us to view. And she's not trying to like perform for, you know, to get people to think a certain way about her. Like she's like content with herself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I get that feeling too. I also love the contrast of her life. I think reading the beginning of her life was nice. That trip she takes to Europe where they're like camping, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Versus her putting together her French apartment that sounded very expensive. She didn't say it was expensive, but you got the feeling that it was very expensive to put together this apartment. And that, those, that high contrast I thought was fascinating because I really like hearing people's beginning stories because I think we look at people and we think this must be the way they always work. Right. Like or are, right? She was always fabulous. She always lived in the Hamptons, she always had two houses, she always had a party, and she didn't. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Um Nikki says the internet hasn't connected yet again.

SPEAKER_01

I just admitted her, so let's see if she's coming back. We just we just kept talking, Nick.

SPEAKER_00

Good. Um, we lost power for a hot second, and then obviously the internet kicked off, and then yes. I'm back though. We're glad you're back.

SPEAKER_02

We were wrapping up final thoughts about Aina.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I figured. Um super duper awesome, and I probably should actually watch one of her shows. Although, if you haven't watched the big martini one that she makes, I love that one.

SPEAKER_02

Let's watch some Aina old food network together. Maybe while we're making a nap.

SPEAKER_01

I wonder even where we can watch it because she's the kind of thing, like uh at Nick and I have talked about this. I don't think Natalie you've seen it, but the great British baking show is fantastic as background while I'm designing because I don't I'm not required to like watch it closely, but like they're making stuff and they're talking and they're fun to listen to, and that's the way I feel about Ina. Like she can just be going, and I'm just like, oh, she's great in the background. In fact, I think that's mostly how I watched her. I was studying, I was working on my master's and my PhD, and I would just have her going in the background, and it was just very comforting. We're gonna have snacks, right?

SPEAKER_00

You have to while you're watching Food Network. That's what I'm saying, yeah. Okay, that's what, because even just talking about this now, I'm not even thinking about food specifically, but I'm like, wow, I'm hungry.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's so true. I love it. All right. Okay, we'll see you guys. Bye bye.